[movement, I wonder it you could say what…]

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movement, I wonder it you could say what you actually mean by this -how you try to build the movement in Lambeth and what you see as the aim of the movement.

TK: I think that when talk about the need to build the movement, we are talking about a movement against the Tory government, we are talking about a movement which links Labour councils, Labour MPs, trades unionsand community groups which represent areas of particular need within the borough together, to weld them together into a movement, to extend that outside the boundaries of Lambeth with the direction of changing government policy with, because I don't believe we can persuade such a change, the object of bringing down that government.

And that's the way we see it. How have we done it? We haven't built that movement but made a contribution towards it, by posing very clearly the effects of 'Tory monetary policy in relation to working class living standards, shown how their objective of destroying the welfare state at a local level has in practice been carried out, and so raised the consciousness of both trades unions within the establishment of town hall

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SAVE OUR JOBS, OUR HOMES COME IN AND SIGN OUR PETITION TO HIM GOVERNMENT NOW! None gifts pete CD BY THE THEATH Knight Lambeth council going to go next in terms of its no cuts policy?

TK: I think we will make every attempt to retain our no cuts policy without cuts in services, without loss of jobs and we will continue to use the rates to maintain that situation.

IS: Do you not think that this contains the threat of losing control of the borough anyway to the District Auditor or whatever?

TK: I don't think it does. The situation in Lambeth is that we haven't placed ourselves in a position where they have been able to use those other methods against us.

We're continuously working under the threat of the District Auditor, but I think that we have been able to pose in the course of that certain key problems that may rebound on the Tories.

I think, for instance, we're in a major one at the moment. We have been advised by our own legal advisers and also by our Director of Finance and Al gar TEPAL E Ofder your Intertiora l6 Ld 60 chief officers that because Heseltine has threatened a julie penalty in the course of the next financial year, if we don't reduce our spending to avoid that possible penalty then we could be in a surchage situation as far as our councillors are concerned.

Now we have taken that situation up, and since, accordthe Association of Metropolitan Authorities, it affects half the authorities in the country, this may force a retreat on the part of Heseltine oI a reevaluation of the situation.

In other words I think we are able to use our experiences to fight back at the Tories on issues like that.

I think it also poses another very important issue within the Labour Party and that is the one that we raised at the Blackpool conference (of Labour Party councillors) last week which is what is the role of the District Auditor, what are the roles of the councillors? Will the new Labour government give us a clear indication and pledge that they will remove such surcharges and. also any bans from office.

And I think the support we received-widespread even across political levels within the Labour Party, and the intransigent position of the Parliamentary leadership, poses another big issue within the party.

So I think we are able to use the experiences here in a number of key ways, and in Camden of course.

I don't share the pessimism that flows from those comrades who want to seek a quick way out. There isn't the need for such pessimism. I think the working class is ready to fight. I think it is a question of building leadership. And I don't think you necessarily build leadership by becoming martyrs on a cross at the earliest opportunity.

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