Dermine Solidarity

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unions up into the branches or trades.

Let them have independent unions: but only branch unions, no regions.

It will be easier for us because the workers' tradiWalesa tions are enormous-tell a miner or a railwayman to be together with a millinerwith all respect for that trade, of course!

But milliners have their own problems and so they would want to have an organisation of their own.. Why do we defend the old Central Council of Trade Unions (CRZZ)? We deterd the Council because first of ali we have to fight with them on grounds of legality.

This is our weapon of steel: legal agreements, the resolution of the Council of State concerning the registration, the resolution on the new trade unions.

Therefore we have to keep fighting them, so to speak, on the grounds of legality. And we can't give up anything without a The enemy must toil just as well, the enemy must be weakened. To give up the CRZZ would be illegal because the only lawful and lesa' forum which can dissolve it is the congress of : he CRZZ.

So we have an edge there; they will surely demand the dismantling of' CRZZ, because it doesn't exist any more-all the unions have left it.

But just a minute: elections to the unions have to be called, and the congress convened We have to reckon with this battle, though: if we dissolve the CRZZ for them, then as repenting sinners we shall be asking Walesa to let us join the new unions.

But the property, created through generations, is indivisible according to law We just can't divide the holiday houses and sanatoria between the old and the new unions.

They can be nationalised because they belong to the nation; or there has to be some central body which will take over after the CRZZ-but legally, according to the law.

What awaits us is a great political battle. However, we shall be in a better position because in the meantime the enemy pulls down his mask, we have increasing evidence and show it now to the nation.

It is shocking for some people. Some people say: how can they show such things on television? But never mind.

Fear

• The important thing is first of all to make people realise what sort of canaille they are and what they're up to.

seconaly, they have to become atraid, well atraid. The western countries, especially West Germany, Denmark and other Americans have to fear what the unions are doing. (...).

The unions fight for information, foi access to the media. And they will get it when they have learnt that they have to dissociate themselves from KOR.

What we would need is a statement that they dissociate themselves from KOR. This would in turn cause divisions in KOR.

•There's no other way. They have to know that we are not the sort of people to be easily outwitted.

We are already waging a struggle in these circumstances. On the third day running, all the factories in Silesia are working. In the whole country only about 10 minor plants are on strike.

Let them strike

The most stubborn are the strikers of the State Insurance Company in Przemysl. They don't want to yield; they demand talks with a party government commission ... but let them strike.

There's no hurry to solve the problem. You know, now it turns out that we have too soon dismantled all these deputy premiers, there were so many of them.

Now they would come in handy, because we have to set up party-government commissions to talk to the unions.

Of course similar tactics will be applied in the case of the Katowice steelworks.

Here an element of anxiety will have to be introduced: well have to hint that the works will not be further developed. Let them understand, these building workers, that building enterprises can be dissolved, that if they are not disciplined the less qualified will be fired.

Now there was this 4shift system... These commissions, these workers' commissions are to suggest who is going to be dismissed from the mines.

Good young lads

There's no 4-shift system now, so many people are not needed.

But these inter-factory workers' committees have to fire them. We have to involve them in a thousand problems.

I sympathise with them, they are good young lads but they have involved themselves in politics (laughter).

There is no other way, they have to get a taste of power. We have to make quarters and meeting places available to them.

' And equip them with every luxury.

I always keep saying this but let me repeat it here once again: I don't know any man who would not get corrupted by power-it is simply a matter of time and degree (Laughter).

We can already see it among them. Easy access to money, taxi rides to Gdansk, telephone conversations, contacts with the secretary of the provincial party committee, with the deputy premier ... They go and they begin to get extravagant with money... so this is a correct policy.

How will it all end? Ideally it should end with the unification of all these unions, though this can take years.

But we should see to it KOR leader Jacek Kuron that first they do not get rid of party members, second that they do get rid of the KOR people and then the rest must be simply slowly broken up.

And so, comrades, this is the situation about these unions. But this is a very difficult matter, we have to play it very delicately and with great political culture.